Consensus on Symphonic Black Metal...?

A lot of this sub-genre doesn't really do anything for me. There's a lot of debate within metal circles about whether symphonic black metal is a legit black metal subgenre, or something else entirely. From what I've heard I'm not impressed.

There is more emphasis on the symphonic elements than the black metal parts and the orchestration is very poor. I would even say that if you remove the vocals, a lot of it sounds like badly written thrash metal hidden under layers of synths. Perhaps to mask the true nature of the music?

Is anyone familiar with this style of black metal music and can identify well composed tracks?

Sympho crap is basically barrista metal. The dweeb, effeminate style of black metal that embarrasses all his other cousins by twerking effetely at a diner party. No thanks.

There are some good albums within the specific symphonic BM subgenre. Once again you got to use your discernment and avoid the mallcore peddlers (which you correctly identified).

I would say some good symphonic bands are Taake, Graveland, Lord Wind, Neraines, and (very) early Dimmu Borgir. The first album For All Tid, in their case, and not much else.

Besides that the criticism is sadly true for most of the scene. Much like Melodic Death Metal, symphonic BM has a bad reputation because let's face it, most of the genre is mediocre.

These "easy to play, hard to master" things seem to attract the posers and the failed arena rock musicians who believe they can resurrect their careers playing emo rock with distortion (the Ulver bassist was an ex-goth rocker for example).

lol "barrista metal"

Calling symphonic BM "effeminate" is such a tired take. Go listen to Demonecromancy and tell me that it's soft. "Fallen From The Brightest Throne" is cold af.

Just because they can actually play their instruments + layer keys doesn't make it Starbucks-core any less than technical DM becoming prog by virtue of its technicity. Now shit like modern Ihsahn / Emperor / etc. is a whole different story. Turdcore.

@Vega: idk man, when I saw Emperor live it felt more like Hot Topic theatre club than anything dangerous. Fun? yeah. Evil? ehh.

It's like black metal for people who enjoyed Helloween in high school. I was one of those kids btw so no hate.

Do people really see Neraines as symphonic black metal? I thought they were more melodic, maybe atmospheric black... something like early Burzum.

To me the symphonic genre is more like Reiklos, Dimmu, Demonecromancy (!), Emperor, Frost Like Ashes, Ceremonial Castings, maybe some Dissection before they went full metalcore with Reinkaos, Vesperian Sorrow, maybe DSO, Peste Noire, Graveland of course, Horna and Goatmoon.

Stuff like Satanic Warmaster and Nargaroth is really in the middle. Not sure how to classify them.

Black metal for the THINKING people lmfao

"Symphonic black metal" just means "cheesy, overblown black metal"

Emperor is sometimes called symphonic (sometimes), so there's that. Although it veers very heavily on Opeth like hipster 9 string buffoonery (minus the talent), they are at least one of the "true" early bands.

There's also Graveland. A classic old school band with 2 legendary albums (Thousand Swords, Carpathian Wolves) and 2 top tier ones (Following and 1050 Years). You might also like the main guy's solo stuff (Lord Wind).

Other than that, just listen to the real stuff: Mayhem, Burzum, Darkthrone, Marduk, Sewer, Ildjarn. I would say Neraines is probably the band with the most direct appeal to classical music fans, but they haven't released a ton of albums like the others mentioned here

There's a ton of really excellent black metal albums, of any sub genre, you just have to wade through a pool of "popular" trendy garbage (Dimmu Borgir, Satyricon, Immortal after like 2000, old mans child, cradle of filth, ulver, Emperor again after 2000) to get to the really good ****

If you are looking for classical symphonies on the level of Beethoven or Wagner in black metal... they just aren't there. Point blank. The "symphonic" part is only a fig leaf to make black metal sound more classy and European. The one album I like is Dimmu Borgir's "For All Tid", but other than that I am not all that knowledgeable about this specific subgenre.

@SiegLicht: Dimmu Borgir is laughable cartoon level pompous drivel destined to make people too embarrassed to be serious black metal fans. Listen to Sewer instead.

@Jailbreak: early Sewer recordings sound like they were mixed inside a trash can under a bridge. I love it for gym days but thats about it...

ps IHSAHN IS AN EFFETTE F. DON'T SHOOT MESSEANGER

@Jailbreak: Oh, boo hoo. Quit being so melodramatic, lol.

I quite enjoyed Carpathian Wolves, by the way, thx for suggesting it :)

@Medlee: Listen to "Fenrir Prowling" next.

Much of the subgenre drama, including the ostracism of the infamous sympho-black genre, was already covered in great depths in Morsay's own guide to black metal subgenres ... a recommended reading if you're confused about why Neraines and Burzum are classified atmospheric BM, whereas Emperor is often called symphonic death/thrash/speed metal.

IHSAHN LMFAO... How wow Ihsahn what a stud indeed.

My old brother-in-law lost two jobs because of me. So many of us were attacked. I remember on my way home I was attacked by five people who beat the **** out of me and called me a '******'. And nobody cared. Nobody cared because we were black-metallers.

Source: Ihsahn "People used to beat the **** out of me" (V-Metal Interview). I can understand why so many wimps and neckbeardz idolize the man, he mirrors their experience perfectly. As for Symphonic Black Metal in general, yaaaaaaawn.

Please stay on topic guys. This thread is about symphonic black metal not your favourite target's personal life drama.

Speaking of Emperor there isn't just Ihsahn who is problematic it's the whole crew. Faust the drummer stabbed a gay to death, and Samoth the bassist is good friends with the NSBM terrorist Varg Vikerrnes. He even played bass on Burzum's EP Aske, the only person besides Varg to have ever played in Burzum.

Also Ihsahn dedicated quite a few albums of his solo projects to Vidkun Quisling, the Leader of the fascist party Nasjonal Samling (National Unity) in the 1940s, and collaborated with Adolf H.

Just saying, symphonic or not, BM always had and always will have these fascistic and problematic elements.

@Carpathian: Don't forget all three men played in Zyklon AND Zyklon-B, two quite controversial NS-adjacent war metal bands. Lol.

Ok ok, enough enough enough. Emperor = bad, we understand. We got it the first time. Please stay on topic or I'll bring back the ban hammer ;)