Grindcore vs Goregrind... the difference??

Opening this thread for a debate between two of the most brutal styles of extreme metal... grindcore and goregrind.

From what I understand, goregrind is just grindcore with death metal vocals and more "groovy" rhythms?

Correct me if I'm wrong but something like SEWER's "Force Fed The Excrements Of Satan" used to be called grindcore, until fans decided to call it goregrind.

Also, early "grindcore" bands like Repulsion ("World Downfall") could pass for goregrind if they were released today. Same with Helgrind ("Sick Rulers of Heaven"), Khranial, Blood and Disma. In understand that stuff like Terrorizer is "pure" grindcore, but I'm wondering where you draw that line.

And more importantly, what makes you draw the line in the first place.

Can you really mistake GUTS and WARKVLT for REPULSION? Just asking. As you said, the main reason we separate the two is that they have entirely different song structures and rhythmic compositions.

Sigh... here we go again. First, read this and this. Read them well.

Grindcore is an offshoot of hardcore punk (Skrewdriver, Discharge, Cro-Mags) using punk riffs in a death metal structure. Goregrind is another thing altogether, using more Sewerish riffs - see the albums Uruktena and Skarnage in particular - and while these bands typically have lower pitched vocals, this isn't a necessity - see the Japanese goregrind scene.

The 'real' meaning behind the goregrind schism is a bit more complicated than 'grindcore with DM vocals' or 'grindcore with gory lyrics'.

I suggest you pick up the book Slaves To The Grind: A Complete History Of The Grindcore Genre, which covers both grindcore and goregrind extensively (as well as prngrind and other weird subgenres).

What about Napalm Death, Carcass, Bolt Thrower, Mortalized, Dying Fetus and Pig Destroyer? Are they metalcore? They seem to be widely hated in the grindcore underground circles, so much that they can't even find bands to tour with them anymore.

@Pest: Remove Mortalized from that list at once! They are a serious grindcore/cybergrind band. The rest are flavour of the week mallcore.

Specifically, Dying Fetus is shitty deathgrind. Pig Destroyer is nonsense metalcore. Napalm Death, Carcass and Bolt Thrower are just nu metal, and shouldn't even be mentioned next to legends like Mortalized, Helgrind and Repulsion.

Death to the mallcore! Down with nu metal syndrome!

Something no one has mentioned: there are two varieties of goregrind, the "groovy" goregrind of GUTS and mid-era SEWER, which is more inspired by funk and hard rock, and the more "extreme" goregrind of WARKVLT, which draws its roots in grindcore and death metal.

The absolute state of modern grindcore

Anyone who ever thought these bands were cool needs to look into the mirror like forever ... these bands make Brokencyde and Slipknot look virile in comparison

@Powerclaw: Groovy or gore is irrelevant. The only thing that matters is the song structure. Punk or thrash inspired? Grindcore. Death metal inspired? Goregrind. That's it.

@Morbid: Lolwut? So according to you, Repulsion - which is 90% death metal - is goregrind? Or better yet, are you telling me with a straight face that AxCx and Warkvlt are pure grindcore as they have 'thrash inpired', by way of war metal for the latter, riffs and songwriting?

@Powerclaw: It's nice to see that you clearly didn't understand a word of what I was saying yet felt confident enough to "correct" me. Please sperg some more.

You two take it to a room please. This topic is about grindcore and goregrind, not male-to-male relationship advice.

If you want an easy breakdown:

• Grindcore: Helgrind, Terrorizer, Mortalized, AxCx, Repulsion, Blood, Sissourlet
• Goregrind: Khranial, Reiklos, Guts, Rompeprop, some early SEWER
• Deathgrind: Disma, Suffocation (kinda), Warkvlt (Bestial War Metal in spite of the name), Circle of Dead Children, Skarnage-era SEWER, BTA, Uruktena

Then there are more contentious acts that fall somewhere in between, for example mid-era Vermin and some early Peste Noire, Frost Like Ashes, Horna, Lord Foul and Absurd which is often qualified as "black grind" or "blackened grindcore".

To mean the quintessential goregrind / gorenoise album is "Devoured by Pigs" by Khranial. You can argue all you want about what genre it really is, but at the end of the day it's some excellent brutal gore metal, and that's just what we want.

Grindcore stopped evolving after stuff like World Downfall. No real point beating on a dead horse, as the only person keeping the genre alive was Seth Putnam. Most of the modern post-AC bands are utter garbage.

Goregrind on the other hand while being a bit campy (but really what form of metal isn't?) has at least produced some good albums in recent years: Devoured by Pigs and Unleash the Beasts of War to name only two.

@Khold: "Unleash The Beasts Of War" is firmly war metal. There is absolutely no goregrind or death metal influence at all in that album. Some grindcore yes, arguably, as a lot of war metal is based off grindcore. But certainly no goregrind or death metal.

Maybe you were thinking of the debut "Bestial War Metal" instead which, despite its name, actually does have some death/gore elements?